Wellness Over Crisis: Faith, Counseling, and Self-Worth

Dr. David Fraze: Here they come.
Christy Martinez and Josh Ellis.
So, what did you say?
Dr. Joshua Ellis: Love you, too.
Dr. David Fraze: Look at what?
Cristy Martinez: I don't know who it is.
It was Bradley.
Dr. David Fraze: You knew who that was?
Put your microphone up.
We got to see.
So, you knew who it was?
Cristy Martinez: Yeah, it's Bradley.
Dr. David Fraze: Is she a good student?
Cristy Martinez: She's newly engaged.
Dr. David Fraze: Whoa.
Whoa, that didn't answer my question, so we're going to leave that there.
You can't get extra credit for yelling at your professors.
Let's see who needs extra credit.
If you need extra credit, let's make Christy feel good.
Wow.
How about Josh?
Yes.
I have no clue.
This is Daniel.
Is he going to pass your class?
It depends on how the rest of this chapel goes.
All right.
If you don't know what we're doing here, if you're visiting,
because we do have some visitors, Daniel.
We love bald heads.
I think you're a beautiful person.
Thank you.
I'm a fan.
You're a fan.
And one of his students just yelled, you recently shaved your head.
And he's trying to pass class.
We walk with you even when you have a bald head.
Oh, my word.
You're not getting extra credit.
so uh it it's been a very practical week it's sometimes been kind of heavy uh we've enjoyed
and y'all have participated thank you so much and some of the things like breathing and stuff that
we've done here but um there's some things that we can't do for ourselves i had a student say
okay i've tried breathing i've tried all this stuff i had another student say i've tried to
put things down on my calendar. I seem to be a little bit out of control. How do I know? And we
all do. It's a little dirty secret among counselors that we talk. Counselors have counselors, right?
We don't. He really is positive. Josh doesn't have one. Dude. I wish y'all could see all of
the little facial expressions. Josh doesn't need one. Then dude. We've known each other for a very
long time. All right. That's good. That's good. Everybody needs somebody. And so we have these
moments where I need somebody to step outside, objectively look and say, how do I get past this?
So the big question before we talk about actual resources, how do I know when I need help?
More than a friend, more than I need to go talk to somebody, I need to do something.
Dr. Joshua Ellis: The short answer is if you have a pulse.
The way that we've approached this this week, which I think is really great, instead of looking at mental health or looking just at treatment, we've approached it from the perspective of wellness.
And I think that is really kind of at the key of being mentally healthy.
What we find is more times than not, people will wait until the bottom drops out.
They wait until something terrible happens.
They wait until they've run out of their own resources and trying to handle things themselves.
And then they finally, almost in this act of desperation, will reach out many times very reluctantly and say, okay, I guess I need some help with that.
Dr. David Fraze: And why is that?
I mentioned earlier before y'all came out, especially with sexual violence, it's like we're a Christian university.
Nobody struggles with this.
And it's almost we feel like we're going to be shamed.
We feel like there's not people who will look at us in a bad way.
Is that where that comes from and why we wait for the bottom to fall out?
Dr. Joshua Ellis: Yeah, I think part of it is that.
I think part of it is just our upbringing.
Part of it's our culture.
I mean, stigma isn't today what it was 20 years ago, but it still certainly exists.
The idea that if I need help with my mental health, then there must be something inherently wrong with me.
And I don't think that's true at all.
I mean, we don't wait until we're absolutely starving and, you know, weak and shaky leg to eat something.
We take care of our bodies.
And really, if that was a more common approach with mental health, then we probably wouldn't have some of the, you know, some of the bigger issues that we typically deal with.
Dr. David Fraze: And I think it's some of the conversations actually when we had our little meeting together that we wanted to talk about wellness instead of health because of that stigma.
It's just we all go through ups and downs.
You have bad days.
you have good days, all that stuff.
And that's not wrong.
And the stigma.
So why else do we not seek, do you think, Christy,
help from somebody who can really guide us?
Cristy Martinez: Well, I think it's this idea that you have to be able to afford it.
Like counseling and even mental health is notoriously expensive.
And so maybe we aren't helping as many people as we can
because it does cost money.
And, oh, I got to deal with insurance
or all these other layers.
So I think if you've not been in that world,
then the world feels extremely foreign to you.
But then once you get in
and you have your first counselor,
like, oh, I could have sent an email
or it was a simple phone call,
and then I got the support.
So I think being able to navigate
some of the immediate barriers,
such as I don't know where to go,
I don't know who to talk to.
I feel nervous reaching out.
What am I supposed to say?
And a lot of my clients will tell me that they feel like there's an expectation of them.
I need to already know what the end looks like before I can seek therapy.
And that's not necessarily the case.
Dr. David Fraze: Which is, if you've ever been in those moments, and that was my phone call, right, before we came on stage.
It is a funny thing when someone says, what am I supposed to say?
Because we really are pretty normal people, especially y'all who have a lot more training than I do.
You just help us ask some really good questions.
And I've never met someone who's been with people like y'all to go, that was the worst experience of my life.
Usually people, especially those resources we have around here, it's like, why was I carrying that so long?
Why was there a stigma to it?
Dr. Joshua Ellis: Yeah, and I think, too, you know, the resources layer is important,
but I would argue probably that there is another even more foundational layer to help-seeking
that has to do with self-worth.
Yes.
This is something that I talk to my students about.
I talk to my clients about this.
It's a fundamental truth that you cannot hate yourself to a better version of yourself.
Dr. David Fraze: You think about how many times—
Say that again for the people in the back because that's pretty powerful.
You can't hate yourself to a better version of yourself.
Dr. Joshua Ellis: You think about how many times you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror and you don't like what you see.
So almost in a panic, you run to the treadmill or you run to a diet or you try to find something to mitigate that negative feeling.
You're a bad friend or you do something that's outside of your moral code.
So that same panic mindset, we run to the scriptures or we run to prayer because we're trying to resolve that negative feeling.
Well, then the negative feeling goes away and so does the motivation.
the only way to make yourself better and make it last is to accept your value and accept your worth
and let that be the motivation because isn't that so godly you know the last two days
Dr. David Fraze: you've heard your peers up on the stage christy was here it's like the problem with online
dopamine hits at times or being so stressed is that we don't like sitting in a discomfort but
part of what you're describing is if you don't sit in that discomfort,
it's like having a fever and never taking care of it and keep taking Tylenol.
There's a reason you have a fever and we don't want to look at it.
Yeah.
Dr. Joshua Ellis: And there's a big difference between trying to mitigate negative emotions and
seeing the value in yourself,
seeing that you're worth it to,
to be healthy,
to,
to be well,
I work predominantly with men.
So I work with a lot of husbands and a lot of dads and I tell them the same
thing.
the best thing that you can provide for your family is being well.
So, and that's the great thing.
I mean, half of the work is done because we're at a Christian university.
We understand that in Christ, we don't get a vote on our worth.
Our worth has already been decided for us at the cross.
And if we could sit in that and lean into that,
then the idea of seeing a counselor once every two months just to maintain our wellness becomes less ridiculous.
And it saves us from having to wait until we're in full crisis mode and putting out the dumpster fire.
Dr. David Fraze: But even some people, and Chris, I'll have you respond to this.
I'm sure you've heard it, is people don't even go to the cross because of this pull yourself up by your own bootstrap performance mindset.
Especially, and it's on us, that adults have given this generation that they're only seen if they produce something,
and they look a certain way or all these stipulations,
and we give them way too many awards to make them feel special,
and they look in the mirror and know I'm not as special as everybody thinks I am,
and it's all about performance.
But that specialness you're talking about, I hear so many people say,
I'll give my life to Jesus when I get everything taken care of.
That's the whole point.
You can't take care of everything.
So do you hear those excuses of I'm not good enough,
that's why I'm not worthy of help?
I mean, what do you hear that detracts people from getting help?
Cristy Martinez: What comes to mind is, and it's my favorite quote, so it's by Carl Rogers.
And he said, the curious paradox is that when I accept myself just as I am, then I can change.
And so that requires me to really look at myself and say, well, who do I think that I am, right?
And then if we add on that next layer, who does God say that I am?
And then I sit with both of those things.
And then I can go into the third thing.
And who do I want to be?
But can I first accept that I text too much?
I stay on my phone too much.
I'm rude.
I'm, you know, whatever the thing is.
The thing about me that I don't want anyone else to see.
Can I sit and can I accept that?
And then can I move into that next level?
God, you say that I am worthy.
You say that I have value without having to do anything else.
Dr. David Fraze: So y'all know how weird y'all are for this reason, okay?
We've already joined the weird crowd.
A lot of the things that we see, especially on social media,
and people who say they're counselors but they're YouTubers or something,
the goal is to get rid of discomfort.
So if somebody asks you a question you're uncomfortable about, they're the enemy.
So if a friend comes up and goes, man, you're being kind of rude.
And this weird sense of individualism that is not captured in the image of Christ,
it's captured by dominance.
It's like if something's negative, then you got rid of it.
So if there is a teacher that asks you a question, they're the enemy.
If there's an adult that says, especially parents, this may not be a good decision,
then they fly off.
And friends and counselors are like, I want to go find another counselor.
And I'm like, why?
Well, I don't like them.
Why?
Because they ask them a question that hit that spot you're talking about.
Dr. Joshua Ellis: Yeah, our knee-jerk reaction is to run away from discomfort.
God, through James in James 1, tells us to use it, to find value in that.
Not being afraid of not being okay.
We say it all the time.
It's okay not to be okay.
We love to say that.
I wonder how many of us actually believe that.
because the second we feel not okay, that's when that panic sets in.
And, you know, whether you're going to the scriptures
or whether you're working with a counselor,
if it's somebody who knows what they're talking about,
the goal is not to regulate.
The goal is to heal and grow.
There's a big difference between those two.
Cristy Martinez: And there's also this idea that if you go and you sit in front of a counselor
and there's something not there, one, it is okay to find another counselor.
Like if they aren't helpful or maybe they don't understand the culture that you come from,
Dr. David Fraze: they don't understand.
Tattoos make you nervous.
Cristy Martinez: Right.
Like, okay, I don't want someone who's tatted up or I want someone who is Christian
or maybe I want someone who is a bit more secular, you know.
But to say that there is something that you are looking for or a kind of counselor,
It is an intimate experience to sit with someone and share all of these things about yourself.
And so you've got to be comfortable with the other person across from you.
And so it's okay to say, that wasn't a good fit, but not, oh, well, then I'm done with counseling.
But that wasn't a good fit, and now I know a bit more about what I'm looking for.
Let me move on.
Dr. David Fraze: So I love that good fit.
Your views are going to be the same, you know, as far as the deep things.
but it's not just because,
and I'll say this again for the people in the back,
if a counselor does their job,
it's not just talk therapy.
It's literally going down there and in those spaces
and go, let's look at that.
And there are ouch moments.
And then that's when the healing begins.
That's good.
Okay, so we could talk on and on.
I feel like we're having a nice little,
you know, scholars colloquium here on stage right now,
this moment.
Hopefully the provost that's here will give us credit, academic credit for our discussion, scholarly conversation.
I think that's a no.
So here's, that was just a joke for the faculty, and obviously they weren't here.
So I've got to stop.
What specifically, let's give some specifics.
So sometimes talking to a friend who's a good listener helps, and we can talk.
How do I know?
Let's get some very practical things where I need to go to the counseling center.
I need to talk to my psychology professor about resources, talk to the professor.
Where do I need to go?
Do you all have some things that, like, in the back of your mind are very practical things?
When do I need to go and really seek help?
And I know we just talk.
I think any time is a good time.
But is there some things that kind of raise flags in your mind to say, hey, let's go talk to somebody professional?
Cristy Martinez: You know, usually when your friends are tired of hearing about that thing,
that might be a time where, like, now they no longer have a lot of empathy for you
because it's like, all right, this is, we've heard this a thousand times.
You're spinning your wheels.
You know, it might be a good indicator that it's time to get an outside perspective.
Dr. David Fraze: So your friends aren't just being mean.
They could be a barometer of you.
Cristy Martinez: That could be a boundary of, like, you just want me to tell you,
what you want to hear at this point.
So, yeah.
Dr. Joshua Ellis: That's good.
You know, also looking at the baseline
for your behavior and how you feel.
This is something that we do to assess
typically anxiety and depression,
which not surprisingly are the two
most commonly diagnosed mental disorders.
So has there been a recent fluctuation in your sleep?
Has there been a recent fluctuation in your appetite
in either direction,
whether you're sleeping more than you normally do
or less or eating more or eating less? Are you finding yourself really anxiously trying to
trying to draw closer to your friends in a way that's atypical or maybe you're withdrawing?
And a lot of times we can't see that in ourselves. So relying on the people around us who,
you know, if somebody is asking you every day, are you sure you're OK? It might be worth a look.
And here's the thing. If you decide to reach out and seek help and you're fine, you've lost
nothing. So it doesn't, I would say it doesn't cost you anything. Obviously there's logistics
that go with that. But if you think that something might be wrong and you're wrong,
that's still okay because you're still taking active steps toward your own wellness and leaning
Dr. David Fraze: into your own worth. And one of the cool things is guys, they're regular people. They're very
smart and professional in what they know, but you would want to sit down and have coffee with them.
And that's one of the gifts of everybody you've seen on stage.
Y'all are people who are approachable and you're passionate and you really want to help.
So thank y'all so much for that.
Resources.
So I'm looking at the time.
One we're going to put up here in a little bit.
And Christy, you can join what we have here at some point.
But what do I do if I've reached that point?
I've listened to my friends.
I've seen some of my behaviors.
My next step, it could be, again, talking to a professor to help us with these resources,
but what are the resources that are available?
You mentioned money.
You know, that's a big deal.
So what resources are out there?
Cristy Martinez: Yeah, so we have the counseling center on campus, I think.
We'll have the QR code there.
And so being able to schedule from the QR code is great.
There's also a nonprofit here in town called Family Counseling Services.
They provide counseling for free, no cost to you.
And you can schedule an appointment, reach out through fcslubbock.org.
Dr. David Fraze: Can you do that?
Excuse me.
Sorry.
I'm so emotional right now.
Can you be very, in case somebody's taking notes, what is the.org again?
Cristy Martinez: F Frank C Charlie S Sam Lovick dot O-R-G.
Dr. David Fraze: Awesome.
Steven Jennings, the military guy, is so proud of you.
He did that.
So that's a great resource.
What other resources can you all think of?
Dr. Joshua Ellis: Yeah, so if cost is not an issue, and this isn't a blanket statement necessarily,
I refer a lot of people.
I get folks that I've gone to church with in Chicago, Alabama, wherever,
and I'm not plugged in with resources in their area.
Psychology Today, which is a monthly magazine that's put out,
they also have an online directory where as a therapist,
you can pay to be listed on their directory.
What I love about that is it's almost like window shopping for counseling.
To what Christy was saying, finding the right fit,
I think that's really important.
It's not about finding the best counselor.
It's about finding the best one for you.
So you could either Google it and start looking through websites, or you can go to Psych Today, psychologytoday.com,
and you can filter if you want a therapist who's male versus female.
You can filter through or for whatever type of insurance you might have, what their theoretical approaches might be,
how they do counseling, what specific issues they deal with, even specific populations.
So it's a really nice way to see a bunch of potential therapists in one place
without having to bounce from website to website.
And I refer a lot of people there.
Dr. David Fraze: And I'm going to say, I mean, that could be overwhelming
if somebody's in the audience going, oh, my word.
Those are three solid ones.
You know, we have the nonprofit.
We go psychology today.
And knowing those who work in our counseling center,
A great intake place if there's something beyond them.
I know that you all talk.
Everybody kind of talks and says,
do you know somebody who can help this without breaching confidentiality?
And there is a great web, I would say, on our campus, you know,
those who actually have training that aren't in that role that have resources.
There's somebody I call when I call our people.
I call one of you all, hey, here's the situation.
Do you know of a counselor?
The lady who runs the counseling services at Tech is a member.
We go to church, and sometimes I'm like, I have this person.
What do you think?
She'll send me a list.
So there's ways.
They can come and talk to you all in your department.
What do you know?
What do you have?
Dr. Joshua Ellis: Yeah.
Absolutely.
I was going to say that.
Come talk to us.
I mean, on LCU campus, we obviously can't offer counseling services.
That's not our role here.
We need to be very clear about that.
But if you kind of don't know where to look, I mean.
Dr. David Fraze: You know people.
Dr. Joshua Ellis: Yeah, we can definitely point you in the direction.
That is never a bother.
That is never an inconvenience.
I would much rather you come knock on my office door or send me an email than not say anything and go without the help that you need.
That's good.
Any final words?
Dr. David Fraze: Something you want to say, go, and it has to be about this and not about us.
Cristy Martinez: Okay.
You can do hard things, and you are worth getting help.
Dr. Joshua Ellis: Oh, love that.
I don't know how I'm going to top that.
Always ask.
If you think there's a small possibility that you might need help, always ask.
It's better to be wrong about not needing it than it is to be about needing help.
Dr. David Fraze: That is so good.
Do hard things.
It's not easy to improve yourself, but I love where y'all start.
We have an image of God, and that is a beautiful thing, and we break it at times, but in God's view, it's not broken.
It's there.
It's a part of healing.
I will say as well
and this is just something
there's times that I've seen
especially with people where you actually have behavioral
services it's kind of an odd thing
because and it is an
income thing some people that are lower income
they give them medicines
without a behaviorist
and so it may be when you hit
this age of life and your body began to change
the medicine you're on may make
you feel weird
go ask for help
Cristy Martinez: Were you speaking from experience just now?
Dr. David Fraze: No, I wish I did.
My drug is caffeine, and I'm fine.
I can stop at any time.
Just don't count my coffees.
Cristy Martinez: What they all say.
Dr. David Fraze: This is an intervention now?
Are we having an intervention?
Dr. Joshua Ellis: We need to unpack that, Dr. Frese.
Dr. David Fraze: I fell in love with a coffee bean through a coffee commercial.
I'm just kidding.
Okay, so thank you all so much for the week, and thank your department.
Can we just give our behavioral scientists an applause?
still not getting extra points all right
we have a display i'd really like you to go look at again you are loved you are seen we walk with
you when things are great and when things are tough you have people so look at the person to
your right and left and say, I see you.
I see you.
Now say, have a great day.
You're dismissed.
Hey, Ben, let's leave this up.